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Post by Sasha on Mar 31, 2022 7:05:41 GMT -5
Hey I'm just wondering what's wrong with this catz pose?
It's just not doing as well as my other poses I'm not sure what I could do better? I think the allignment is good, the tail is curved and the oshie yowls are balanced?
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Post by Ratqueen on Mar 31, 2022 8:14:35 GMT -5
It does have a great pose, definitely BIS-quality. Maybe it's hard to tell the tail is indeed curved because it's black -- at a glance, it kinda looks straight, but upon further examination we can tell it's curved. But, mostly, it's probably just because there are so many other BIS-quality poses in shows. My own cats frequently place 2nd and 3rd (and even HM sometimes) with BIS-quality poses.
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Post by Thor on Mar 31, 2022 9:19:21 GMT -5
I think that pose is wonderful! Perfect alignment, tail curve, and you managed to pose an oshie so well (esp as you said, they get imbalanced jowls).
It all depends the competition. If there's 5 BIS quality catz (and often times when I've judged shows, that's how it's been), then how does a judge break tie-breakers? That's a question I'd love to poll judges with one day.
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Post by commander on Mar 31, 2022 20:47:35 GMT -5
Agreed, it's a great pose! There are just so many great poses lately that they can't all place BIS. For me, I usually do a tie-breaker with the difficulty of getting each breed to pose... so I'll place oshies higher than other catz, all else being equal. So that pose will actually do very well in my shows lol (in fact, I just placed her as BIS in my latest judged show
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Post by Sasha on Apr 1, 2022 10:39:26 GMT -5
Awww thank you so much! Thank you very much for the feedback, I really appreciate it! Ratqueen thank you for explaining the tail looks curved, and Thor thank you for the feedback on the yowls! I'm super new to oshie posing and I'm not super experienced with persian tails so I really appreciated and thank you so much for the BIS Commander. I made this thread because it wasn't placing as much as Belle's pose, and I was a little confused, but very good to know it's differences in judging and stuff, that does make sense, cat poses are brilliant these days!
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Post by Sasha on May 3, 2022 1:59:20 GMT -5
Hey guys I'm sorry to bump but I'm getting the feeling that something really does need to be improved about this pose?
I understand that the pose quality is really good these days, having recently showed two cats all the way to Legend status. But those poses seemed to do a lot more evenly in shows? I'd get a BIS and then a 3rd, lots of 1st and 2nd and the occasional HM.
However Princess' pose really seems to consistently place 3rd and HM among most judges. I've been staring at it for days and I still can't figure out what's wrong with it. :/ I'd love to improve it so it could place better, but I'm totally stumped
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Post by mouse on May 3, 2022 9:19:26 GMT -5
i am relatively new to judging but i find that if there are 5 BIS-quality poses i really have to get into the nitty-gritty of pixels, and i need to disregard breed and look at the pose as a whole. for this one i look at the tail and i look at the visibility of that far front foot, if all the other contestants have less pixels visible than another pose it bumps them down any other judges feel free to critique my process since i am quite new to judging, this is just what i've found makes sense to me since posing is so competitive!
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Post by zan on May 6, 2022 2:50:27 GMT -5
I can't really offer much specific feedback as I'm not that familiar with showing catz, but I'd assume it's down to a combo of stiff competition and individual's judging preferences. You could always try asking for feedback after entering people's shows? Maybe not everyone has time or inclination but I know I'd always be happy to provide a critique or explain decisions. And it might be worth asking on Whiskerwick too if you haven't already, in case more people respond.
Splitting tiebreakers can be hard and I assume a lot of people do it in different ways. For example (talking about dogz here as I don't judge catz) I look for each pose to be the best it can possibly be for that particular breed/assortment of parts. I don't penalise for something a pet cannot physically achieve because that seems unfair/demoralising for those showing. Others may simply go for the pet that is closest to an overall ideal regardless of individual breed limitations. There are other really minute things you can look at too, like how the textures lie on the pet (whether they give a uniform look or whether they are unfortunately highlighting a particular ball), whether the markings are particularly visible (for example the blaze on dogz sometimes shows fully/symmetrical and sometimes appears a little obscured), even looking at lines, weight, expression (eyelids/brows/mouth lines) etc. And of course there's personal preference - if judges see poses as equal, they may bring their own preferences for breed/markings/colour etc into it as a way to split the placements.
Of course, I'm just guessing - just thought it might give you a few more things to consider! I do know what it's like to take a pose pic that you think is perfect and then for it not to perform that well in shows - I think it happens to most of us from time to time, usually I just shrug and move on, the pet will champ in the end anyway, though if you're showing to a higher amount of points then I see why you'd want to find a pic that'll place higher.
I don't know how it would look but if everything else is the best it can be, you can try varying the weight, maybe upping it slightly to see if it could make her look more plush/rounded? I also don't really know whether it does anything but I often like to brush my petz right before I pose them because I feel like it might make their coats look nicer...probably just in my mind though but it's nice for them!
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Post by Thor on May 6, 2022 10:25:12 GMT -5
I agree with what Zan said-- it's easier to see the line up of 5 catz and then say why I placed them how I did because it's really dependent on competition. Maybe judges wouldn't mind explaining how they place petz :) but it is an extra level of work on them so you'd have to ask if they'd be willing to and be understanding.
Honestly, sometimes when it's a 5-way BIS I just like close my eyes and decide 🤣 (not literally but sometimes I'm like "HOW DO I PLACE")
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Post by Sasha on May 8, 2022 6:43:26 GMT -5
I thank you all very much for your detailed and thoughtful responses , I'm going to respond to some individual points directly but I really appreciated the feedback. for this one i look at the tail and i look at the visibility of that far front foot, if all the other contestants have less pixels visible than another pose it bumps them down This makes sense, and I thank you for your insight! Sadly I don't think I'll be able to improve on these points with this particular cat. It's true she does have more pixels showing by her front feet! The reason that Princess has two pixels showing by her feet, is because she has calico legs and feet. When they are in optimal alignment, the two pixels are unavoidable. If you position her differently for the camera, only showing one or even no pixels at all, the legs become unaligned and pixels start showing in the elbow area. This is often heavily faulted for being misaligned. Her tail is... Ugh I honestly don't even know what's up with her ridiculous tail. xD It doesn't 'stack' normally or curve normally, you're absolutely right. That cream ball is in the strangest place and it does this every single time she poses. I've tried taking pictures of different alignments, petting the tail and other things. But no, the tail always looks like this at highest breathing point. I guess poor little Princess is just unlucky with her chonky feet and weird tail. But I really appreciate the feedback and I understand that judges would pick up on this. I can't really offer much specific feedback as I'm not that familiar with showing catz, but I'd assume it's down to a combo of stiff competition and individual's judging preferences. You could always try asking for feedback after entering people's shows? This is such a good idea and I'll definitely look into doing this if possible, I wouldn't want to bother the judges but it would be really insightful to see the judging process I think! I also really appreciate the other tips, and I'll look into seeing if I can get a better pose. But you're right it's not the end of the world, she will get to Legend status, even without as many ribbons as her peers, and that's ok too! I agree with what Zan said-- it's easier to see the line up of 5 catz and then say why I placed them how I did because it's really dependent on competition. Maybe judges wouldn't mind explaining how they place petz but it is an extra level of work on them so you'd have to ask if they'd be willing to and be understanding. Honestly, sometimes when it's a 5-way BIS I just like close my eyes and decide 🤣 (not literally but sometimes I'm like "HOW DO I PLACE") xD Thor this is so relatable, I tried judging cat shows and I ran into this exact issue. At the end of the day some things really are just preference
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