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Post by Bunni on Mar 16, 2022 8:25:22 GMT -5
There has been some speculation around whether personality values affect petz relationships with one another! (Specifically ECRose and gyiyg were talking about it on Petzcord last night.) It seemed that Mythpawology (not sure if they are here on RKC?) edited one of their petz' personality values and that broke a longtime friendship they had with another pet.
I thought it could be interesting to share screenshots of our petz personality values along with what their relationship with each other is. In my opinion, the easiest way to look at the data would be to compare personalities of petz who are either best friends or enemies. I know that some petz can be indifferent towards each other, or have one pet like the other but not have that feeling reciprocated, but I believe that seeing the extremities of the spectrum (best friends vs enemies) should be the simplest way to find any clear patterns.
Let me know what you guys think though, as this thread is meant for discussion around the matter ^^
I'll start by sharing my catz Liliana and Titania. These two are absolute besties!
And here are their personality values: They both share high Confidence, Acrobaticness, Kindness, and Nurturing values. Their Independence, Liveliness, and Playfulness are opposites though. If you have any petz to share and compare, please do!
The only other note I have, is that I've heard that if you keep reintroducing petz over and over again (using .pet files that haven't met yet) then sometimes the petz will become friends. I've never tried this before. However, if that's true, then it sounds to me like the whole relationship status is just randomized immediately after the initial introduction bark/meow animation?
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Post by gyiyg on Mar 16, 2022 9:55:50 GMT -5
i have confirmed through testing that two of the personality values have an immediate, observable effect on relationship status:
-petz with high Finickiness, when presented with a pet that they would otherwise have a "buddy" relationship with, will only engage in buddy interactions with the other pet if they also have high finickiness. otherwise compatible petz with finickiness below the threshold (around 50+) will attempt to initiate buddy interactions with the high-finickiness pet, and stand around waiting for them, but the high-finickiness pet will completely ignore them (if the goal monitor is up, you'll see the pet with low finickiness get the "bond with buddy" goal, and the finicky pet will never get any goals related to that pet in return!)
-as mentioned in the personality discussion thread, high Libido causes petz to be more friendly with petz they are able to mate with (neutral -> buddy, buddy -> romantic (possibly enemy -> neutral as well?)), and seems to have a more prominent effect in male petz (sometimes going from neutral -> romantic), but this seems to only be true so long as the pet is un-neutered. neutering a pet with high Libido will eventually cause the relationship change to revert in some way (usually seems to become neutral), though not immediately.
i wouldn't be surprised if compatibility was influenced by traits in common as well as having a random element (much like with flavor preferences, which seem to be rolled at random but weighted based on Finickiness), but something else i remembered that i forgot to note last night was that when i was younger, i introduced a pet to its clone, and they immediately hated each other, which makes me suspect that if traits play a part in compatibility, there may be some traits that petz prefer their friends to have the opposite level of. (my most immediate suspicion would be Independence, given petz with low independence are prone to jealousy!)
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Post by ECRose on Mar 16, 2022 10:20:10 GMT -5
Here is the list of theories and questions that I have been trying to research regarding pet personalities and relationships:
~ Do specific similar or dissimilar traits affect pet relationships? ~ Are certain traits "weighted?" (For example, if your petz both have high kindness, does that mean more to the relationship than whether or not they both have a high metabolism)
~ Do petz like each other if they simply have more similar than dissimilar traits? Do they like each other more as the quantity of similar traits increases? ~ What makes traits similar? Do they just need to be in the same range (high, med, low), or do they need to be within a few points of each other?
~Are friendships/romantic relationships simply randomized? (no apparent patterns have any bearing on relationships) ~Do cat and dog relationships follow the same "rules" or are there different parameters?
Since I was just getting into this discussion last night I don't really have a whole lot of material ready to present, but here is what I looked at to start with this morning.
Since Ralph and Grissi are enemies, I decided to compare their personalities. As you can see they have quite a bit in common, with a few sharp differences, notably their kindness score. I marked their independence and confidence scores with a yellow box beside the traits rather than highlighting them. This is because both values are over 50, which could make them "similar" if personality matches are measured by range. But, I don't know if it is measured by range, or if personality values truly matter at all yet, so that's the best notation I can really do for now. Their acrobaticness technically is in different ranges as well, but I marked them as similar since I feel like they are still pretty close. But the range thresholds are worth considering here too.
Let's compare Frankie and Grissi now. They are friends. Interestingly enough, they don't have that much more in common in terms of quantity of similar traits vs dissimilar. They also have dissimilar finickiness values, just as in the scenario above. Kindness is once again notable as well. Both Frankie and Grissi have low kindness. Intelligence is over 50 for both of them, but there is quite a bit of disparity, so I did the little adjacent box again. Libido is also similar, but does fall within different ranges, so I marked it that way as well.
What do we learn from this? ~ Both pairings have more shared traits than they do dissimilar traits. Unless only certain traits are factored into relationships, quantity alone is probably not the deciding factor. (Meaning that quantity alone would matter if 6 traits affect relationships and having 3 or more in common makes petz friends, for example. More data is needed to see if that's what is happening because the traits that are "relationship factors" would need to be identified) ~It is possible that certain traits are weighted, and/or greater differences are significant. (91 Kindness from Ralph vs 6 in Grissi is a huge difference.) ~ Friends vs enemies at random is still certainly possible
I haven't done a comparison for Ralph and Frankie yet, and I need to create a few for some other "best buddy" petz, but I hope this gives an idea of what I've been started to ponder and explore. I'm sure there is a lot more that could be extrapolated from this as points to explore or as evidence to support or refute various claims, but I decided I should get the ball rolling with this post and add more later.
Thank you for reading! I look forward to everyone else's discoveries.
EDIT: While I was writing this monstrosity of a post, gyiyg popped in with some excellent points, especially the portion about certain dissimilar traits being a good thing for relationships. I will factor that in to my analyses moving forward.
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Post by Bunni on Mar 16, 2022 10:35:29 GMT -5
Hmm a few basic hypothesis I see based on the 3 relationships shared so far: - If one pet has <50 Independence, and the other has >50 Independence, the petz will be friends.- If both petz have <50 Kindness or >50 Kindness then the petz will be friends. - If both petz have <50 Intelligence or >50 Intelligence then the petz will be friends.Would be interesting to try and see if we can refute these statements! Update: I took a look at two different pairs of petz who do not get along, and I've been able to scratch off all three of the above statements. Pair #1Pair #2
So based on all the data we have shared so far, it doesn't seem that having one singular trait in the same or opposite > or < 50 range determines the relationship. That would've made it very easy to predict friendships moving forward! Ah well. As mentioned by ECRose and Gyiyg, it's probably an equation of variables that determines it. Another question I have is, does that MatchStatus under the pet profile really give useful information? Or do you think it's a randomly generated code used as a gimmick by the developers? It changes every time you view a pet's profile... even if you don't take them out or anything. That to me seems like it's just randomly generated (e.g., MatchStatus: KKW2-E13G-AEZ3) What was the point of this again? They ran a little free service on their website where kids would send in the MatchStatus of their petz to see who they should pair them with for breeding/love? Update from an old thread I found: ^That's exactly what it was. The old PF Magic Petz site had an online adoption center and also a match making center, which was exactly the same as the adoption center, only you copy and pasted that match status and it pulled up compatible matches for that Petz that you could download and adopt. I adopted a bunch of mates for my oldest Petz that way, and I still own most of them. Interesting! But again, I'm still wondering if it was just a gimmick or if it truly did hold the information needed to know if petz would get along/fall in love.
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Post by Thor on Mar 16, 2022 14:58:40 GMT -5
Commenting on the Match Status thing, I tried to explore this awhile back-- I asked about this and talked about this before with several folks and even tried to see if I could write a program to help me figure out relationships with the Match Status in one pet (and then for many other petz). But-- its super weird-- the Match Status changes literally constantly as the pet is out of the carrying case-- Which means this is something that is based on some changing code that is happening during the game? And I read that Match Status was used on a website to "match" petz but I wish I knew what it to figure out "close matches". I wish I knew more. Another thing to comment-- one time I had two petz who met and HATED each other but then my game crashed so their relationship wasn't saved. When I opened the game and had them meet again, then they suddenly were friends. I recommend getting two pairs of petz and making copies of them and try having them meet and observe? I have a feeling that there's a lot of factors that can make a pet's initial relationship change. I've also had petz who were in love and friends and suddenly hate each other. I've changed nothing about them. I think this can just happen?
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Post by mythpawlogy on Mar 16, 2022 15:55:23 GMT -5
Hello!!! This is the Mythpawlogy that was mentioned in the first post!!! So, let me explain the situation. I have two Petz, Blood and Tricky, who had those glitched unibreed personalities, and they were friends. One was my cat Tricky, who had the unibreed personality because he's a hexed breed. Blood is Tricky's son, so he had some normal traits along with the unibreed traits. I first modified Tricky, and the two were still friends after I did this, but after I modified Blood, the two started to hate each other. There might be other factors at play, but I don't remember doing anything to make the two hate each between this but it's definitely a sudden contrast in behavior. Here's Tricky's personality traits beforehand (i have an unmodified version of him in P4) and his current traits now (in P5). Now, unfortunately I don't have a version of Blood with his OG personality, but here's the current one now. His Liveliness, Playfulness, and Naughtiness were 50, and his Insanity was 0 (he's a Chinchilla Persian mixie so gotta make him have that insanity XD) I really wonder what happened, I did some copy and pasting of the files to prevent them from being corrupted and lost, but I heard that it doesn't really effect much. So... hm I wonder what happened between the two. The other relationships seem to be unaffected, however. It's a very weird thing to me and I'm sad because they loved each other and they're father and son...
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Post by Anthracite on Mar 16, 2022 16:44:27 GMT -5
These two used to love each other, then as soon as one was speutered the romance crashed and they became enemies. They're also almost identical, so I don't think personality has much to do with it. I suspect if you alter a .pet file the game just reads it like a new pet, then assigns it new love-hate scores.
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Post by ECRose on Mar 16, 2022 16:54:10 GMT -5
The first thing that comes to mind that I think is noteworthy in Myth's case and in Thor's experience with petz suddenly hating each other is the ID of the pet. What I mean is, who the pets are was not altered in either case. The .pet files should recognize each other as being the same pet that they already know. Don't .pet files store the identity of other petz that they have met? The reason that I find this to be significant is that it tells me that Blood and Tricky's revised feelings toward each other aren't because they are meeting for the first time a second time, so to speak. Their files already "knew" each other, just as Thor's petz already knew each other. If pet sentiments can change regardless of ID and regardless of personalities being changed or not, doesn't that mean that something else is governing their relationships or at least impacting them? Sentiments don't seem to change too often, but if it is possible for it to happen, what triggers it? Is it whatever the "Match Status" is measuring?
As for the Match Statuses....Is it always a new number? Or does it cycle through, let's say, 10 different ones for example, for an individual pet? Maybe it changes a lot, but it only has 10 possible "statuses" that it can be? Perhaps if pets meet when a certain status is "active" for each, they will either love or hate each other. If it is the case that there are match status "groups" then the whole "adopt a pet that will be a good romantic partner" idea would still work because it is theoretically working by status clusters. If pets are in the same "cluster," they will love each other. Pets in different clusters may like/love each other if certain statuses happen to be active at the time of their meeting, but aren't guaranteed, and maybe their relationships are more malleable over the long term.
I know I just went waaaay out on a limb with no real data here, and I apologize for that. Just thinking aloud.
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Post by Bunni on Mar 16, 2022 17:06:06 GMT -5
Ok, I love all the posts here so far. Thank you everyone for your valuable input! Thor: Yes, making copies of two petz and introducing them all would be an interesting experiment. I think someone needs to do that to see how it pans out. If I get time tonight, I'll give it a try! If anyone else would like to as well, go for it!! ECRose: Don't apologize for thinking aloud! I love hearing your line of thought. It's good to have new ideas to explore. I really like hearing your speculation on the MatchStatus. I wonder if there are groups? We should definitely look further into that by recording all the ones an individual pet spews out for a few minutes and see if they ever repeat.
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Post by Thor on Mar 16, 2022 17:51:54 GMT -5
As for the Match Statuses....Is it always a new number? Or does it cycle through, let's say, 10 different ones for example, for an individual pet? Maybe it changes a lot, but it only has 10 possible "statuses" that it can be? Perhaps if pets meet when a certain status is "active" for each, they will either love or hate each other. If it is the case that there are match status "groups" then the whole "adopt a pet that will be a good romantic partner" idea would still work because it is theoretically working by status clusters. If pets are in the same "cluster," they will love each other. Pets in different clusters may like/love each other if certain statuses happen to be active at the time of their meeting, but aren't guaranteed, and maybe their relationships are more malleable over the long term. It seems random string values every time. I wrote a bunch of notes on this a long time ago because it reminds me of serial numbers. I'll have to dig up these notes. I analyzed several values to see if they were "near by" each other in the same pet and found nothing useful. But I recently found the name of the function that handles this so I wanted to try running a debugger and step by step see how it calculates these values.
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Post by mythpawlogy on Mar 16, 2022 21:12:26 GMT -5
Okay, so I think my situation was an outlier. I had another file for Tricky in P4 that still liked Blood, so I decided to change the personality values and use that one to see if the relationship changed. It didn't! They're still besties! My theory is that the two somehow got jealous of one another when I was playing with them between this. Recently I did take MY ENTIRE crew out just for fun so maybe something happened in that chaos. Not sure though. Take this gif of the two being besties though!
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Post by Thor on Mar 16, 2022 21:58:39 GMT -5
It seems like petz relationships are complex and there's a ton of variables with them..... (tho I'd still love to figure out the mystery of the match status token!!)
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Post by cheemsburbger on Mar 17, 2022 0:52:58 GMT -5
I also want to know what exactly the match status details, theres the posibility it was exclusively for petz.com, but it would be really interesting if it actually had an effect ingame.
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Post by Sasha on Mar 17, 2022 13:21:13 GMT -5
So I think Marina? Used to be glitchgender female, causing her and Belle to be smitten with each other. I had to neuter Marina because I was ending up with 10000000 half first gen kittens. After then they didn't like each other, which broke my heart. So I grabbed a new copy of Marina and reintroduced them, they didn't like each other (they were never enemies just indifferent). I then made a load of copies of Marina until one of them became besties with Belle, it seemed totally random? What's interesting is that I didn't have to take a new copy of Belle, she didn't mind being introduced to new Marinas over and over.
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Post by gyiyg on Mar 17, 2022 14:06:59 GMT -5
this definitely lends credence to there being some level of randomization involved, which makes sense and i was assuming was the case. both catz do appear to have mostly similar values, but both do have low independence, so if those give any weight as suspected, it'd probably even out and leave it kind of up to the randomized aspect. it seems like "neutral" is probably the most likely for most petz like this to land on? in my experience with most petz i seem to see it more often than other relationship types.
and i think i have noticed this before, but as long as one of the petz doesn't have the other pet in its memory, even if the other one does, the game still reintroduces them, and presumably rewrites the memory entry in the pet that did remember the other one! this probably applies for a pet that may have "forgotten" the other one after spending a very long time playing with other petz rather than that one as well.
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