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Post by CatCreature on Jun 27, 2023 22:42:51 GMT -5
I wanted to ask if anybody knows how to fix this. So Carolyn's Walret file, one of my personal favorite breeds -of all time-, has this quirk when bred. All 1st gens (like the green one pictured) have smaller pupils/irises, bigger eyes/eyestalks, and possibly a smaller head/muzzle then the offspring do when they're bred. Actually, their body shape (length?) and overall size might be smaller too.
Is there a way to fix this? So the offspring actually come out shaped like the parents? I've been wanting to try doing a non-inbred, purebred line of Walrets for a while, like the Pittie line I made...but before I go to all that trouble, I'd -really- like to know if it's possible to fix this first...I still like them the way they are, so if it can't be fixed, no big deal...but it would be nice to have more authentic feeling Walrets xD
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Post by Kalium on Jun 28, 2023 9:32:49 GMT -5
I wondered if this might have something to do with scales and extensions. So I downloaded the Walret file and had a look. I think I'm right with the body length - which I agree with you it's definitely longer in the 2nd gen. The file has a body extension of -90. I hear there's a limit to how far you can go to extensions before the game will use them for 1st gens but default to a min/max value for 2nd gens. Unfortunately I don't know what it is but I think that's what's happening here. Maybe if you look at the body extension value for the 2nd gen petfile, that's the limit? I think it can be fixed to breed true but you'd have to manually move all the butt/leg balls forward instead. I have no idea what's with the eyes though. But I noticed something really weird in the code, those aren't its eyes! [Eyes] 11, 9, RightEye/leftEye 27, 28 RightIris/leftIris The eyes are repurposed ear ballz. Weird, but I know Oddballz did a lot of that. Maybe it's defaulting to some base ear size when bred? Maybe it'd work better if those really were its eyes but you'd probably lose any animation associated with it. Maybe addballz attached to the ear ballz would work? The size diff for those ear ballz is 75, I'd be curious to see what it is in the second gen petfile. I wonder if the file was made by simply copy-pasting values from the original Oddballz file. It wouldn't have mattered if those couldn't breed true after all and I know there were some weird tricks used to get the right shape. (edit) yeah just cross checked with a downloadable original Walret lnz and it looks like that's the case.
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Post by CatCreature on Jun 28, 2023 17:45:15 GMT -5
But I noticed something really weird in the code, those aren't its eyes! LOL Yeah, I kinda didn't think so.
When breeding them with things with the correct eyes, it would usually 'pick' which eyes to use and leave the others blank. I have lots with two sets of eyes, and either set can work as eyes. But the ones with ears, like the cream one pictured above, often times the ear tips turn into VERY TINY functionable eyes!! (If you zoom in, those are actual eyeballs on the tip of his ears!) Very weird, but I think it's kinda neat xDD
Wouldn't manually moving all the balls forward in Pet Workshop mess up movement? Also, do you have to eyeball it, or is there some easier way to tell how MUCH to move things in PW? Because that could be pretty rough to figure out based on look alone.
If I made addballs attached to the ears to become the eyes...how do you make them actually...BE eyes? Like blink and everything? (Or can you?) Because these eyes do actually function as eyes and I'd hate to lose that.
I don't know if you want to look at one of my 2nd gen Walrets, but if so, here's a TEMPORARY download link for Shian!
Sorry to just ask a bunch of extra questions x'DD Thank you for looking into this!!
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Post by Kalium on Jun 29, 2023 5:25:04 GMT -5
Wouldn't manually moving all the balls forward in Pet Workshop mess up movement? Also, do you have to eyeball it, or is there some easier way to tell how MUCH to move things in PW? Because that could be pretty rough to figure out based on look alone. Possibly, but I don't think it'd be as extensive a body mod as the bipedalism. I don't know much about moving things around in PWS, though, but I don't think you can set an exact number? But I had a look at the 2nd gen pet you linked (thankyou!) and her body extension is -50 so I think maybe I could use that as the breedfile extension so the legs don't have to move too much. Hopefully that should cut down on any distortion. Really I don't have much to do right now so I could have a go at modding the breedfile if you're ok with that? It'll give me something to do while I'm stuck home sick.
If I made addballs attached to the ears to become the eyes...how do you make them actually...BE eyes? Like blink and everything? (Or can you?) Because these eyes do actually function as eyes and I'd hate to lose that.
Yeah, that Eyes code bit can turn any two balls into the eyes and have them function as such! I did a breed once with addball eyes on the tip of its tail and they blinked like normal. Though maybe the fact that they're ears isn't causing the size issue since one of those 2nd gens seems to have the right size even if they're not functional... unless the game has some hard limit on eye size specified elsewhere. But you'd want one of the reverse engineering people for that, I guess. Have you ever had a second gen (mix or not) with the right eye size and functionality?
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Post by CatCreature on Jun 29, 2023 21:24:27 GMT -5
Really I don't have much to do right now so I could have a go at modding the breedfile if you're ok with that? It'll give me something to do while I'm stuck home sick. I would love that!! Any extra help is highly appreciated right now because this is all kind of leaning out of my experience with hexing and I'm probably going to have so many questions in trying to learn how to do most of this. Though maybe the fact that they're ears isn't causing the size issue since one of those 2nd gens seems to have the right size even if they're not functional... unless the game has some hard limit on eye size specified elsewhere. But you'd want one of the reverse engineering people for that, I guess. Have you ever had a second gen (mix or not) with the right eye size and functionality? .....Very interesting thought. I somehow never noticed that the non-functional eyes on some of these mixies ARE the correct size for Walret eyes. Looking through my massive hoard of mixies right now, and so far it's looking like all the correct sized eyes are non functional, like the white example in my last post with the long tail!
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Post by Kalium on Jun 30, 2023 5:09:12 GMT -5
Alright! I had a bash at it and I think I'm getting somewhere. First thing was to fix the body length, that was easy enough. I set the body extension to -50, figuring that was the lowest that would inherit, and shifted all the back end ballz forward to compensate. It works just fine, breeds true, and I've not noticed any animation issues.
The eyes on the other hand... I don't know what's going on, but it seems like if a ball is set as an eye there's some hidden size limit. I tested this by removing the line of code that designates the ear tips as eyes and bred a pair. Sure enough the size breeds true then:
Green is the parent, white is the 2nd gen (I think? come to think of if the green one has an issue I noted later... I should have written down which is which...) And apparently this also causes the irises to go back to their original position and sit on the nose like freaky unblinking eyespots. Noted for if I ever need to make something strange.
And because that wasn't enough mucking about with nature, I tested it on a vanilla Siamese, altering nothing but the eye size, and bred a pair:
Friends don't let friends hex whilst sick, kids. Left is 1st gen, right 2nd. You can see he still has horrible giant freak eyes, but they're significantly smaller. And at that point I decided I had no idea what was going on. Like I said before maybe some of the reverse engineering people could tell you there's a check in the code that never lets eyes go beyond a certain point. But it's beyond me, so I thought about going back to my idea about replacing them with addballz, figuring whatever check the game makes won't cover them. And it works! I made a pair of addballz attached to the original ear tips, set them as the eyes, and omitted the ear tips themselves. They animate the same way, blink, and breed true for size!
These two are siblings. I adopted two Walrets from the original file, bred them, and the one on the left was the result. Then I swapped the original for my modded file, bred the pair again, and got the one on the right. I still need to fix the eye colour and now I look at it they might be a pixel or two too big, but that's nothing that can't be sorted. I mostly wanted to be sure the file would breed true even with original Walrets since I don't know how file swapping affects these things.
So I think it works - though I noticed in some the 2nd gens were coming out with smaller tusk tips. Is this something that happens with the original file? I could probably fix it the same as the eyes, but thought I should bring it up.
Bottom right is 2nd gen and has sharper tusks. Otherwise these are both from the modded file (note the wrong eye colour again).
And then I got curious as to what would happen if I bred it to another breed and grabbed a Honker:
I'm not sure if I want to keep him or adopt him out, but isn't he cuddly?
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Post by CatCreature on Jun 30, 2023 5:35:32 GMT -5
Oh man. Since I'm such a Walret hoarder, I would absolutely LOVE some of your failed breeding attempts, if you plan to get rid of any...I am all about weird Walret creatures and I love those first ones, LOL!
The green one IS likely 1st gen, since the green color doesn't pass down.
Out of curiosity, the one with the smaller tusks...if it's 2nd gen, how does it have purple eyes?? Since those don't pass naturally!
Again, I hadn't noticed any tusk sizes in my Walrets, but I went and looked again...and sure enough, you're right! It's not as drastic as what you caught, but:
You can see the lower tusk ball is slightly smaller on the white one!!
Your 'honk-ret' is adorable too x'DD Seriously, I'm always like MAYBE I SHOULD MIX A WALRET WITH THAT!! when I see a new cat breed >> I might have an illness with this breedfile. LOL I've joked to my sister about trying to make a Walret DOG file so I truly CAN breed them to -everything- LOL
ANYWAY!!
I'm so excited to see that the idea with the eye addballs is working!! And the shape looks really good!! Interesting that there seems to be an eye size limit...who knew xDDD
I can't believe how close it is to perfect...and you did it in such short time!! I cannot thank you enough for toying with this for me!! ;-;
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Post by Kalium on Jun 30, 2023 10:23:31 GMT -5
Oh man. Since I'm such a Walret hoarder, I would absolutely LOVE some of your failed breeding attempts, if you plan to get rid of any...I am all about weird Walret creatures and I love those first ones, LOL! Ahh, I don't have those two eye freaks any more. But I could make another pair for you! If you like I can send you along a big zip with all the test pets I have. I'll throw in the Honkret too if you like him. Out of curiosity, the one with the smaller tusks...if it's 2nd gen, how does it have purple eyes?? Since those don't pass naturally!
No idea, maybe I did remember wrong and it's 1st gen. But I've made addball tusks now that should inherit correctly. They may look a bit weird in PWS, it doesn't seem to handle addballs based on balls positioned with Project Ball (as is the case here). So they might look like they're stuck in its jowls. But they look just fine in game. Here's the download. If anyone else wants it, feel free to take it. Actually are you okay if I put it up on my site in case it's of use to anyone else? I can't believe how close it is to perfect...and you did it in such short time!! I cannot thank you enough for toying with this for me!! ;-;
Don't worry about it. Like I said, I'm home sick, I need something to do. If I were at work I'd probably be fixing up wonky code too. Only difference is it'd probably be mine...
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Post by CatCreature on Jun 30, 2023 16:57:10 GMT -5
Ahh, I don't have those two eye freaks any more. But I could make another pair for you! If you like I can send you along a big zip with all the test pets I have. I'll throw in the Honkret too if you like him. Ah dang, not even in the Recycle Bin still? But yes, any leftovers would be fun! Only if you don't intend to keep them, or the Honkret though! xD I know you liked that one in particular too, so it's fine if you'd rather keep him! But if you -do- plan to let him go...he'd certainly fit in with my Walret gang here. (I even have some Honkers myself so he'd fit in either way x'DDD) Regarding the lost ones, I'd hate to make you recreate that mess xDD I guess I'll leave it up to you, and what you're up to doing. If you don't mind, it would be cool, but if it's extra hassle you don't want, don't worry about it! ^^ You've already done -so- much!!
Thank you SO MUCH for everything you did!! I was prepared to struggle through instructions or help I barely understood to -hopefully- figure this out, and it would have taken me so many more days because this is entirely out of my range of understanding so far. I haven't learned the stuff needed to figure this one out on my own, but I knew it had to be up to me...I didn't think someone else would be up for going above and beyond like you did! And this has to be one of my most FAVORITE Petz files ever, so this is something I will use very often and I couldn't be happier. ;-; THANK YOU!! (And I'm glad you like the gift offer I PMed you about!! )
And yes, by all means, put it up on your site!! I was actually going to ask if I could put it on mine if you didn't, just because I agree and think it's something other people should be able to download and use too! So definitely go for it!!
Looks like it all worked out pretty well with the timing then! You being sick and needing something to do, and this urge to breed more Walrets of mine. xDD
I'm eager to make more mixies...but I think over the next few days I'm gonna try and get my line of purebred Walrets going to try and get some natural color mutations! I can't wait to try it!!
EDIT: Also, uh, your download link links to this thread. x'DDD
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Post by Kalium on Jun 30, 2023 17:50:01 GMT -5
Whaaat I know I put the URL in right. Try now. Maybe it didn't like the spaces.
I can't seem to find the missing petz, but maybe it's because it's all running on Mint under Wine and I only half know what I'm doing. But it really wouldn't be any trouble to make some more.
And hey if you want to put them on your site too, go right ahead.
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Post by CatCreature on Jun 30, 2023 22:08:26 GMT -5
Whaaat I know I put the URL in right. Try now. Maybe it didn't like the spaces.
I can't seem to find the missing petz, but maybe it's because it's all running on Mint under Wine and I only half know what I'm doing. But it really wouldn't be any trouble to make some more.
And hey if you want to put them on your site too, go right ahead.
LOL It's playing mind games with you. It worked now!! Thank you so much!! I'm gonna have some Walret fun once I get my PUGS shop restocked!!
It would be pretty fun to have one or two like that pair...just because I love how their eyes look?? They look weirdly cute and alien-like. x'DDD
And it could help to have the file in two spots at once, in case one site goes down! (Likely to be mine, with my host's hiccups from time to time xD) What's the link to your site? If I put it up, I'd want to link yours so people know they can find it in two spots! ^^
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Post by Kalium on Jul 1, 2023 3:49:28 GMT -5
Actually you might want to redownload it, the version I uploaded yesterday might be missing the baby stage. What do you even call baby walrets anyway?
I'm at lilaclynx.net/petz/ - kind of a random collection of stuff, I really should make it fancier, but I like the web fun pack graphics somehow...
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Post by CatCreature on Jul 1, 2023 3:58:43 GMT -5
What do you even call baby walrets anyway? Adorable? LOL
I redownloaded it, thank you!! I meant to ask you if the baby stage was good, but it completely slipped my mind x'DD
And thank you for the link too!
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