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Post by zan on Apr 11, 2022 5:27:04 GMT -5
Just wanted to get a few opinions on this! Poodle shows continue to be decently popular and I've been working on posing some actual poodly poodles instead of just weird poodle-personality mixies, lol.
The original pose guide has this to say: 'The nose/snout should be in a perfectly straight line. Sometimes after holding this pose a poodle will point its nose higher in the air while keeping its eyes open—you don’t want that pose. The entire head should be straight and level.' That's what I've been aiming for so far, but as the show scene has developed I wasn't sure whether preferences had changed to lean more towards a slight upwards angle of the snout, kind of similar to how a high head is valued in regular dane poses?
I'll give a few examples to illustrate:
Lion, with a flat snout (I'd like the gaze to be higher ideally so I'll probably switch this pose out if I make time to have another posing session)
Centipede with a flat/level snout on the left, and slightly raised nose on the right (it's harder to see with this size of poodle, but if you zoom in there is a 1 pixel elevation difference)
Buckwheat, with a lifted nose
I'm torn, because aesthetically I personally prefer the level snout look, but at the same time, who doesn't like to place high in shows? (Also, just wanna add the disclaimer that there's no wrong way to judge shows as long as each judge does so consistently according to their own preferences, so it may well be that different people are looking for different things here, and that's fine! And it's not surprising if what judges are looking for with poodles has changed a bit over time as the poodle show scene gets more established; it takes a while to figure these things out.)
Anyway, I'm open to hearing from anyone - judges, fellow poodle show enthusiasts, people wandering into this topic... What do you look for/aim for/prefer to see in a poodle profile pose? I could do with some tips on what to aim for!
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Post by Bunni on Apr 11, 2022 9:15:29 GMT -5
I personally prefer Buckwheat's pose the most! That's BIS worthy to me! *o*
It looks very clean, dignified, and proud - reminds me of the dane pose for sure.
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Post by Megan@Xoops ❄️ on Apr 11, 2022 12:37:34 GMT -5
I always liked the flat/level snout more haha I think the lifted one kind of makes them look like they have a lump on their snout, the flat one was always more pleasing to my eye personally. And usually in poses things are supposed to be lined up/even/straight so the flat snout always seemed to make more sense to me for "alignment".
I always go for a flat snout when I take pictures, partly because that's what I read to do and because I think it looks nicer. Also if/when I have ever hosted a poodle show I place a flat snout higher.
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Post by Thor on Apr 11, 2022 16:53:03 GMT -5
These are my current/recently showing folder for poodles hmmm... what do I look for? I honestly just take whichever profile pose the poodle happens to throw. I did notice the other day that poodles can slightly tilt their head up, but I don't have an example-- I must've not liked the alignment. I think the slight up tilt is really majestic! I think their placing would depend on competition but it does make them stand out? I maybe did place that slightly higher because of that reason once?
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Post by Ratqueen on Apr 11, 2022 23:34:47 GMT -5
Whether it's slightly up or flat isn't a major deciding factor for me when judging, but I do think they look nice and dignified with their snout slightly tilted upwards. I see I have quite a few of mine like this actually. When I pose them, I'll take whichever pose they throw as long as the alignment is good. When judging profile poses, I'm super-picky with the alignment.
Love that red dog with the Dachie head, Thor ! And the tiny little halfie, OMG!
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Post by Amanda on Apr 12, 2022 13:20:41 GMT -5
(I haven't read through all the replies here yet so apologies if this has already been said-) I always thought this was what that line in the guide was talking about? - the little action right after a profile pose when they stick their nose up even higher! The first pictures are normal profile poses, and the second pictures are immediately after- I've always read it as just saying you don't want that second head position. I personally don't want one position to be preferred over all others (like completely level snout is right and pointed up is wrong, or vice versa), that is something I feel belongs to each individual judge to be able to choose their preference. I usually do like level snouts myself, because when the snout is turned up higher seems to happen when the body is angled too far away (instead of parallel to the camera)- But that's my own personal ideal, and it seems to vary widely from one pet to another with their different scales and extensions so I still always look at the body angle before I look at the head.
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Post by Arie on Apr 13, 2022 4:21:03 GMT -5
^ Yeah that's what I figured too, that the guide was talking about when they point their nose allll the way up haha.
That being said, I'm not very experienced with judging poodle poses at all yet, but I think both look really good. If it comes down to it, I think I'd place the level snout higher in a tie, as it's "the standard" according to the guide I use. But I otherwise wouldn't weigh the difference very heavily.
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Post by zan on Apr 17, 2022 11:15:30 GMT -5
Thanks for all the discussion guys, it's been really interesting! (Sorry for this late response; I've been away this weekend.)
Bunni - I do see the dane pose comparison, and actually snapping that pic of Buckwheat was what made me think 'hmm, maybe I do like some high-snout poses after all'. Believe it or not, I wasn't even taking pose pictures, just randomly snapping, and he decided to lay down and pose like that of his own accord. I think whether or not I like the high snout varies dependent on other aspects of the pose; I don't like it if it makes the snout look too long or narrow, and I usually find I'm focusing on the outline/mouth shape first, if that makes sense? The mouth can often look weird/lumpy in poodle pose and I like poses that make it look neat.
Megan@Xoops ❄️ - Yeah, it reminds me a bit of the flat line sheepies can get when they lift their heads up in dane pose! Overall I think I still prefer it but there are a lot of other factors about the face shape/expression that I take into account when judging. Either a flat or a high snout will still look off if the angle of the dog is turned too far towards or away from the camera. Thanks for sharing your personal preference here!
Thor - Ooh, illustrations, thank you! Love that bottom dog! I was mainly thinking about poodle-headed dogz here, other breeds make things even more complicated because using the same angle can make their faces look really weird. I've definitely place both flat-topped snout poses and lifted snout poses highly; as I mentioned above there are other things I look for too, it's just that I only just realised/properly thought about the fact that poodle poses can sometimes lift the nose up a bit higher. I'm not sure I was consciously aware there was pose variation not based on the angle of the body! So it's really interesting to consider the possibilities and how it affects the way a pose looks.
Ratqueen - Nice pictures! Out of curiosity, when you talk about alignment, how are you determining that? I've been mainly looking at muzzle outline/face shape and wondered if it was the same for you? It can be hard to tell from the body and I've found that with different breeds heads, there's not one angle that always looks good. Looking at the poses I've taken of my poodles, it does seem that I'm usually selecting the same body angle for my poodle-headed dogz in profile pose though, so that's obviously where I think the heads look best.
Amanda - Oh, that makes a lot of sense actually, thank you! I'd noticed that they tilt their heads back at the end of a profile pose and had always discarded those, but hadn't figured out why sometimes some people seemed to be showing with a lifted snout; I've only just realised that it's a variation they can do sometimes so that's pretty neat and allows for a bit more variation in poses. I know I don't like the action at the end of a pose and would consider that a fault, but in some cases I've thought the slight lift to the snout fits well with a dog's expression. Usually I do prefer flat snouts but not at the cost of overall expression; I love when the muzzle outline/mouth looks neat and tidy, and when the nose doesn't look lumpy or anything.
I'll have to play around with body angle to see what snout angles I get when posing. I've not posed that many poodle-personality dogs in the grand scheme of things! I wasn't sure if it's just something they do sometimes, or how it's affected by the body angle.
The fact that shows allow for judge's individual tastes is part of what keeps them interesting, so I wouldn't want to change that. As is clear even just in this topic, everyone has a slightly different idea of what looks best and what should be given priority when judging. I've always been fascinated by the process and love trying to figure out what individual judges look for based on what they tend to place high!
Arie - Thanks for chipping in, for some reason I hadn't considered that was what the guide meant but it makes sense, I know I would fault a pose taken from that section of the poodle posing sequence but I have previously quite liked some higher-snout entries in my shows! There are quite a few things I look at with regards to the fact in poodle pose and actually discussing it here is making me realise that when I judge, lifted snout or flat snout is not actually the first/most important thing I look at. (I definitely feel like I'm still gaining experience with poodle showing and judging, but I'm so happy that poodle shows have taken off and seem to have a fairly stable popularity at the moment!)
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