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Post by KeyGlyph on Feb 4, 2022 0:11:14 GMT -5
UPDATED 2/21/22Hey friends! After noticing discrepancies between the hex color values in Petz color charts vs. what I was getting from in-game screenshots and GenePoolz samplings, I've learned from several members here that colors display differently depending on your operating system. Seems obvious now, but at the time it surprised me! (I'd just assumed we'd developed a standard for this in the graphics world.) I had initially set out to create a chart of each color's hex value from my GenePoolz screenshots, then thought to ask this community for help in that effort... but with the compounding issues of 1) differing OS palettes and 2) programs seemingly displaying different hex values for the same colors, the situation got really confusing for me (see thread below). But thanks to the hard work of all in this thread, I've completed the chart below with the hex color values sampled directly from the palette extracted from Petz4. It includes all possible fur, eye, and eyelid colors. I used the graphics program GIMP 2.12.20 to eyedropper colors and am running Petz4 on Windows 10 64-bit. (If I've learned anything here today, it's that other charts will need to be made for alternative OSes!)
Immense thank-yous to Bunni , Thor , and Amanda for explaining the color difference situation regarding operating systems, and especially to Sharon for creating Pal-ette (which is brilliant and led to a lot of revelations) and for providing step-by-step instructions for extracting the color palette directly from the game's exe file. THE CHART Windows 10, 64-bit Petz 4 EDIT: BBCode was driving me bananas, so here's a screenshot of a table I threw together in HTML instead. *NEW*: I tossed the HTML table up here on my tiny slice of Petz-related internet so values can be copypasted for anyone's use. ORIGINAL POSTHey folks! Quick question. I've been searching the forum and the internet at large in the hopes of finding accurate hex values for the eye colors in Petz 4. Does a master list exist somewhere? I've got to be overlooking it. I ask because I've seen the color charts provided by Crushing and also in the Petz Editing Manual by Carolyn's Creations, but when I sample those colors and compare them to the hex values of color samples from Genepoolz, the values don't match. I've confirmed that the values in Genepoolz match the ones expressed by my Petz themselves, however. If we have a resource for the hex values, could someone point me to it? It would be much appreciated. Thanks!
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Post by Bunni on Feb 4, 2022 8:46:36 GMT -5
I've noticed this before too! As an example, I made this animated GIF of me zooming in on 171 from the LNZ Pro color chart. I'm moving my mouse around, sampling the color, and you can see the sampled hex # keeps changing. It seems that those little blocks of color from that chart are actually made up of multiple (but very similar) colors that just visually appear as one solid color. I'm not sure if this is just an issue with the screenshot I took of the color chart though. I'm on a MacBook, and whenever I take a screenshot it blows it up to 200%. So what might be happening, is that extra pixels fill into the image to make it bigger. If someone else would like to try this out on a Windows computer, I'd be interested to see/hear the results!
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Post by KeyGlyph on Feb 7, 2022 16:34:29 GMT -5
Hey Bunni , thanks for that animation -- that's really interesting. My gut feeling is that you're right about this being an issue with the screenshot; if your MacBook compresses screenshots by saving them in certain formats (or like you said, by blowing them up) instead of keeping them lossless, that would explain what you're seeing. I'm on a PC and haven't experienced that wobbling of colors within a sample.
My issue is that the colors from the reference charts I find don't match the GenePoolz output or the petz' photographs themselves. To stick with your example of 171 Blue, here's what I get when I sample the color from the following three sources:
Dogz BMP: c0e4e7 GenePoolz: c0e4e7 LNZ chart: bfe4e7
Since the BMPs and GenePoolz values match, I'm concluding that those are the true ones.
So, for the past few days I've been collecting the hex values from GenePoolz as I've plugged away at a breeding project for fun, and I think I'm going to transform this thread into a call for help in collecting the colors I don't yet have. Then we can have a big ol' chart of the accurate values compiled here on the boards. Update to follow. Here is the reference I used to test this if you'd like to do your own experimentation:
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Post by Thor on Feb 7, 2022 17:43:30 GMT -5
YES! I love this-- once there's a list of all the hex values, it'd be easy to write a little HTML/CSS table with table-data bgcolor for each hex-color value + number.
I agree that I would use the petz photo for this. But I do wonder if this is different for each person's computer ? Do petz change colors on different people's computers?
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Post by KeyGlyph on Feb 7, 2022 20:37:57 GMT -5
Thor Excellent thought! We should check. I would like to say I'm pretty sure the hex values would stay the same, but if that were so, wouldn't the LNZ chart have stayed accurate? Not knowing how the LNZ chart was done, maybe it was eyeballed and not directly sampled from the game and was never perfect in the first place? Seems unlikely, considering how amazing hexers are at their craft. Maybe the colors had different values back in the 32-bit days? That at least seems plausible... I'm gonna update my OP with my findings so far, as well as my operating system, and put out the call for gathering information from the rest of you lovely people. Thanks in advance for your efforts!
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Post by Thor on Feb 7, 2022 20:53:25 GMT -5
Oh yeah and a community member named Sharon created Pal-ette -- a pet that is just.... the petz palette:
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Post by KeyGlyph on Feb 7, 2022 22:11:37 GMT -5
Oh yeah and a community member named Sharon created Pal-ette -- a pet that is just.... the petz palette: Oh, that's awesome! Those colors match the ones I get from GenePoolz. Did Sharon also capture the in-game numbers that correspond to each color? If so, then the work has already been done! I could also attempt to fill in the gaps in my chart with these values by deduction, but it's not completely straightforward.
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Post by Amanda on Feb 7, 2022 22:21:21 GMT -5
This sounds like it will be a great resource, well done!!
However what Thor said is a thing- (hopefully someone else can come in and explain it better than I can but) the palette does have some colors which are different on different computers. That's the main reason Sharon made the Pal-ette pet in the first place I think! So everyone could put the pet in their own game, take a picture, and see exactly which colors your specific game shows. :) So that's a factor to take into account! And yes that's why the lnz pro/petz workshop/older palette references have some "wrong" colors now.
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Post by KeyGlyph on Feb 7, 2022 22:51:00 GMT -5
This sounds like it will be a great resource, well done!! However what Thor said is a thing- (hopefully someone else can come in and explain it better than I can but) the palette does have some colors which are different on different computers. That's the main reason Sharon made the Pal-ette pet in the first place I think! So everyone could put the pet in their own game, take a picture, and see exactly which colors your specific game shows. So that's a factor to take into account! And yes that's why the lnz pro/petz workshop/older palette references have some "wrong" colors now. Fascinating. And also, what you wrote here made it click for me -- I can fill in the numbers on my own by cross-referencing this with the LNZ chart. Thank you! Updating the chart now. EDIT: Or... not. My brain is really fried today so I should probably step away from this, or at least stop posting so frequently -- but sometimes these palette colors match my own samples, and sometimes they don't, and I can't confidently fill in the chart. I'm cross-referencing Sharon's palette with the LNZ chart that has the colors in the same 16 x 16 grid, making them identifiable by number. Although there's occasionally a number-to-hex-color match, there often isn't, and there are some weirdnesses too -- long stretches of dots that don't differ in value in the palette that definitely have different values when sampled from GenePoolz, for example, like the greens 130-136. I can't figure out why this would be. I'll let this marinate for a while (and possibly take a nap) before I make any more comments, haha.
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Post by Bunni on Feb 8, 2022 11:33:57 GMT -5
My computer is one of the odd ones, presumably because I play on a Mac. Here's what my color chart looks like when using Pal-ette: You'll notice that I have a lot of different colors than most Windows users in the last two rows. I found this out when I adopted a pet from amanda and in her litter photo he had light blue eyes: But when I received him his eyes were dark blue: This is because the color 229 looks different on mine and Amanda's computers. Also, if you're interested in trying out Pal-ette (hexed by Sharon) it was shared publicly here: cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/710295621164335205/922963676783345765/Pal-ette.pet
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Post by KeyGlyph on Feb 8, 2022 12:14:25 GMT -5
Bunni OHHHHHHHHhhhh, this was the piece I was missing. I didn't realize Pal-ette was a file you opened in Petz; I thought it was just a static picture. I went to bed thinking, "But if the colors differ depending on operating system, wouldn't there have to be multiple Pal-ette pictures for each OS??" I was really spinning my wheels there! I can see now that Thor and Amanda explained this, but I didn't understand them. Totally my fault. Also, I really need to get on the RKC Discord and keep up with the latest news and tools, I think. Sharon is brilliant. I hope I get to tell them directly someday. Unfortunately though, I'm still seeing discrepancies between what GenePoolz and Pal-ette are displaying for certain color numbers. For example, 131 Green sampled from GenePoolz generates the hex number #3CA147, but in my Pal-ette the color in slot 131 is #55ab57. What's more, #55ab57 shows as the color for all numbers from 130 to 136 in Pal-ette, and I have both GenePoolz samples and in-game Dogz photos from that range that show different hex values. Here's my Windows 10 Pal-ette, a screenshot of GenePoolz displaying 131 Green, and a photo of the Dog with those confirmed 131 Green eyes:
The 131 Green sampled from my dog's GenePoolz and their photo both come up as #3CA147 in my graphics program color picker (I use GIMP), and not the #55ab57 that Pal-ette displays in that spot. I'm clearly still missing something here. Any thoughts?
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Post by Bunni on Feb 8, 2022 12:53:43 GMT -5
Hmm, is it possible that whoever created GenePoolz has a different visible color palette on their computer? #55ab57 shows as the color for all numbers from 130 to 136 on mine too.
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Post by Amanda on Feb 8, 2022 13:26:51 GMT -5
Ok so the Pal-ette pet isn't a perfect solution- I can explain why those greens are all showing as the same here. It's because they are texturable colors without a texture, so they show flat and lightened in-game. All the ones from 10-149 are likely doing the same thing, I would just ignore those colors and use the .pet for the untexturable colors ^^
When not textured, x9 (i.e. 139 for the 130's range) lightens to x3, x8 lightens to x2, x7 becomes x1, and x0-x6 will all show as x0 if I remember correctly.
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Post by Bunni on Feb 8, 2022 13:29:25 GMT -5
Ooh that's so interesting, Amanda! But why would the iris color be any different from Pal-ette? Wouldn't the iris color be untextured too?
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Post by Amanda on Feb 8, 2022 13:39:04 GMT -5
Irises are different because they are actually a ball outline color (which can never be textured) instead of a ball color :)
And actually this just made me realize - we could make a new version of Pal-ette with all the colors as thick outline colors on a tiny ball and that should make all those texturable colors show accurately!
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