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Post by CatCreature on Mar 26, 2020 4:01:23 GMT -5
So I was attempting to breed more Munchkin-shaped Walrets, like my boy Rodon: Which never goes well. For some reason, simple as the idea is, he seems to be one in a million. o-O ANYWAY that's not the story I'm aiming to tell here. I used a Munchkin file from Magnolia, and there's like, different versions of the file, with their own individual variation. (Why they're not all on one file, as seperate variations, I don't know.) I chose one that looked like this: As I've known those colors to pass down to offspring. Should be no problem, right? I noticed most of my mixies would get colors from the Walret parent (black or brown) but NEVER any gold, or Calico markings, or orange eyes. In fact, if they weren't pure black or pure brown...they were pure white. Curious, I adopted a 1st gen from this file, and bred it to a 1st gen regular Calico (which SHOULD count as the same thing) and bred them together. The results? Three SOLID white Munchkins. And boy when I say solid, do I mean it...they didn't even get the pawpads?! So...I have no idea what the heck is going on. (Rodon is actually white-washed too, come to think of it...he shouldn't be that color.) But regardless... Despite being simple, I thought the white was cute. So I kept one as-is, and I brexed the other two. Here's the results: What do you think? Pretty cute, right?? xD I kept their eye and eyelid colors the same, but gave them pawpads, inner ear colors, and made over their coats. I think Mayonnaise might feel a little left out...tempting to make him over and give him a white themed makeover. xD Kibyr's coat looks simple, but it uses a texture in some strands that goes brown, depending on the angle, so he 'color changes' a little here and there, but in very small sections. xD And the made-over siblings do NOT like each other. xDDD Tawyr was gonna destroy her brother, LOL! --- EDIT: Okay, I couldn't stand it...Mayo looked so unloved. xDDD This...didn't turn out quite how I planned, and it's quite a bit different...but I kinda like it?? So Mayo now has a fancy new look too! xD
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Post by Magica on Mar 26, 2020 5:54:11 GMT -5
Can't help with the genetics/colour stuff (I tend to be the kind of person who goes "where the hell did that come from?!?" lol), but Tawyr is gorgeous! And poor Mayo. Hopefully he feels better, now that he's got a spiffy new look.
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Post by paranoiapaige on Mar 26, 2020 6:47:02 GMT -5
I can't help with WHY they are all coming out white, but I wanted to say you did an AMAZING job brexing them and they are adorable!! I <3 munchkins!
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Post by Thor on Mar 26, 2020 19:14:52 GMT -5
The brexing job is so cute! Is that Amanda/Mandi's breedfile? Maybe ask her?
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Post by Kel on Mar 26, 2020 19:47:38 GMT -5
I've noticed this with the file too, and it's probably one of the reasons why I've rarely or stopped using it. But unfortunately I can't help with WHY it does that. Perhaps some sort of flaw in the file. It'd be cool if someone could fix it. Thor if I remember right, this isn't Amanda's file. It's the Magnolia file. Two different people. Magnolia was a really popular petz site WAY back in the day, particularly for their Munchkin file.
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Post by Thor on Mar 26, 2020 19:49:55 GMT -5
Thor if I remember right, this isn't Amanda's file. It's the Magnolia file. Two different people. ;) Magnolia was a really popular petz site WAY back in the day, particularly for their Munchkin file. Aaa my bad-- I get confused. I guess the advice is the same except this person is probably no longer around...
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Post by CatCreature on Mar 27, 2020 2:39:46 GMT -5
I feel like it's something I could figure out. I think there's codes that help with this stuff in LNZPro. But, I'm not currently experienced enough to know right off the bat. I just find it especially weird, since by default, the colors used should have passed. It almost seems like someone went out of their way to prevent it, because it shouldn't have done that...xD I feel like if full credit goes to Magnolia, and they're truly no longer around, it should be okay to fix something like that. (Right? Or is that a stretch? xD) Regardless, I'm not the one to figure it out until I can figure out my own breedfiles. It's a lot more confusing to make breeds breed properly than it is to make a single hex. I do adore the file though! Thanks for the comments on the Munchkins! ^^ They've been interesting to play around with! Still back and forth on Mayo's design. Sometimes I hate it, sometimes I love it. Might still tweak it at some point. xD
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Post by Arie on Mar 28, 2020 9:11:42 GMT -5
Mayonnaise turned out so cute!
So, Schafpanda's (would tag, but I can't seem to find their account) pig experiments have taught me that some colors just don't pass on because of how the breeding engine in petz works - in particular, colors like pink and green, that don't occur naturally. The engine can't "read" the coat color that should be inherited and defaults to making the coat white.
It kind of looks like something similar could be going on here, but... black and tan should be passing on as always. I wonder if it's possible the natural colors you see are overwrites, and the 'real' ball color underneath is something that can't be inherited?
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Post by Kel on Mar 28, 2020 19:50:40 GMT -5
CatCreature I remember saying this once in one of this discord servers, that I've always felt it was okay to go in and tweak someone else's file, especially if there's a problem with it, such as in this case, AND either with the hexer's permission OR if the hexer isn't around anymore. In circumstances such as that I've never felt like there's anything wrong with doing that. So I think you're good.
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Meer
Petz Groomer
Meow! Woof! Whinny! Squeak! Roar!
Posts: 188
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Post by Meer on May 12, 2020 4:07:20 GMT -5
I could poke around in the file and see if I can figure it out? I have no idea if I will be able to figure it out or not, but I have a few theories about colors not passing down as expected and I want to test them out. It's very strange that some hexed breeds don't pass down colors as we'd expect and I want to know why so we can fix them. So, where can the Munchkin file be downloaded? Or if it's not anywhere could you send it to me? Thanks!
By the way, I think Mayonnaise's makeover is adorable and very pretty! I also really like Kibyr and Tawyr, they all turned out great! And Rodon is amazing! If you ever manage to breed more Munchkin-Walrets like him, I'd love to adopt one! =^_^=
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Post by CatCreature on May 13, 2020 1:39:07 GMT -5
I could poke around in the file and see if I can figure it out? I have no idea if I will be able to figure it out or not, but I have a few theories about colors not passing down as expected and I want to test them out. It's very strange that some hexed breeds don't pass down colors as we'd expect and I want to know why so we can fix them. So, where can the Munchkin file be downloaded? Or if it's not anywhere could you send it to me? Thanks! By the way, I think Mayonnaise's makeover is adorable and very pretty! I also really like Kibyr and Tawyr, they all turned out great! And Rodon is amazing! If you ever manage to breed more Munchkin-Walrets like him, I'd love to adopt one! =^_^=
Thank you! I PMed you! ^^ If you can get them working, that would be awesome! (And I'll have to try and get a Munchkin Walret for you in exchange for the help, haha!) That said though, I get -very little- Munchkin Walrets! For some reason, that's the one combo of the two breeds that shows up the least often! My original plan was to have a bunch, and I bred tons before and got nothing like what I wanted. It's still something I'd like to get more results for though, because it's so funny and cute. xDD
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Post by KeyGlyph on May 13, 2020 18:16:17 GMT -5
Aww, they're all so cute. I love how Mayonnaise turned out. I would adopt that kitten in a heartbeat. <3 Also, Rodon is PRECIOUS. If it helps the investigative process to know this, I have a hexed Dogz I adopted from the internet way back when who also never passed down her markings. Here she is on the left, with her mate and all her pups to date: As you can probably tell, I was really hoping for some maternal aesthetic inheritance, but by the fourth puppy I suspected it would never happen. Still love all those pups though! Their granddad is a Dane, which is why those Dane ears popped up a couple times. :)
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Post by CatCreature on May 14, 2020 2:01:25 GMT -5
KeyGlyph That -might- be different though...hexed Petz don't typically pass down their looks unless you have their breedfile (OW or external) in-game. If that hexed dog was just a single .pet and you have no OW to work with, that should actually be normal! xD I have to say though, I LOVE those Mutt pups with the cream muzzles!! So cute! I'm a sucker for Mutt mixies! xD
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Post by KeyGlyph on May 14, 2020 18:22:00 GMT -5
KeyGlyph That -might- be different though...hexed Petz don't typically pass down their looks unless you have their breedfile (OW or external) in-game. If that hexed dog was just a single .pet and you have no OW to work with, that should actually be normal! xD I have to say though, I LOVE those Mutt pups with the cream muzzles!! So cute! I'm a sucker for Mutt mixies! xD Mine is definitely just a hexed .pet with no OW, so you're right, CatCreature. Now I'm really interested -- I must be misunderstanding the OP! The issue is that two natural petz aren't having offspring with passed colors? And whom do we believe is the culprit? I wanted to get into hexing when I was little, but I got overwhelmed, so I never understood the [computer] science of it. OW files scare me, too. I didn't even really know about them until a few days ago! I should go read some forum articles here and get some learnin'. EDIT: I get it now. I was too distracted by Rodon to understand we were breeding two cats together to confirm absolutely nothing got inherited. That Rodon!
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Meer
Petz Groomer
Meow! Woof! Whinny! Squeak! Roar!
Posts: 188
Petz Versions: 5, 4, 3
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Post by Meer on May 16, 2020 1:51:31 GMT -5
Hey guess what guys!! I got the Munchkins to pass on their colors like they should! Lookit that, I even got an eye color mutation in the kitten. Dark grey, almost black eyes, I like that. Anyway, I had a peek inside the file, and the first thing I noticed was the Thin/Fat section was messed up. The numbers were all there, but the "[Thin/Fat]" heading itself was just not there. But when I messed with the fatness on the cat's brainslider, it got thinner and fatter as it should, and that surprised me, I thought it wouldn't work, so that's strange. But I put the header back in there just for completeness sake and to make sure it never causes a problem for someone else. Cuz as we know, sometimes Petz is a finicky program, being so old and running on new systems. But anyway, on to the main issue. I then noticed that there was no [Fur Color Areas] section at all. No heading, no numbers, nothing. I knew that that section is what tells the game that certain areas should be inherited together as one marking, but could that be the whole problem? Surely it wasn't that simple. Well I decided it needed to be tested. So I copied the Fur Color Areas section from an original breed, in this case I used the calico since this particular version of the Munchkin has calico markings. And what do you know! That was all I needed. As you can see in the images above, my test kitten came out looking exactly like her parents, as she should. I'm really surprised it was that easy. I expected to be poking around in the file for quite a while trying to figure out what went wrong. But I'm happy to say it didn't take long at all. Now, as the Munchkin has a bunch of separate overwrites for each color, so I have to fix each one individually. So far I've only fixed two. I just wanted to report my success right away since I was so excited. XD But I don't foresee much complication with fixing the rest, I imagine they all have the exact same issue. The calico and the pointed colors are easy to fix, since the calico color can take the Fur Color Areas directly from the original calico, and the pointed ones can use the Siamese one, since their markings are basically the same. The other ones that are two colors mixed together, the Black and White, and the Black and Brown, for example, have different markings that I can't just copy/paste from an existing breed. So I'll have to do a little more tweaking for them to pass down their colors right. But that shouldn't be too much of a problem. (I hope... XD ) Worst case scenario their markings might be a little different in 2nd gen, but it will still be better than getting all white kittens all the time! I'll just have to see how it goes. Anyway, I should have these finished and ready to send out to who ever wants them very soon! So we can all breed Munchkins and Munchkin mixies that are not all white! Yay! And also, if this is the same problem that other breeds that don't pass down their colors have, now we know how to fix them! Whoo-hoo! Thank you! I PMed you! ^^ If you can get them working, that would be awesome! (And I'll have to try and get a Munchkin Walret for you in exchange for the help, haha!) That said though, I get -very little- Munchkin Walrets! For some reason, that's the one combo of the two breeds that shows up the least often! My original plan was to have a bunch, and I bred tons before and got nothing like what I wanted. It's still something I'd like to get more results for though, because it's so funny and cute. xDD Aww thank you for the offer! But no worries if you can't get another Munchkin Walret. Maybe Rodon just wants to be a one of a kind. But if you're gonna keep trying to breed more like him anyway, and you happen to get something that looks even remotely similar that you'd be willing to part with, I would be happy to adopt said creature! I can't pass up a cute and crazy hybrid mixie! ^_^
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