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Post by Kelpie on Nov 23, 2018 11:24:23 GMT -5
So there has been some stuff going on in the PC that I wanna talk about. Some people might think it's not good to talk about this sort of stuff and that's cool. You're entitled to your own opinion but your opinion shouldn't silence mine or anyone else's for that matter.
So one of the things that I love about the Petz Community is that despite the games being ancient and abandoned they still have a dedicated community surrounding them. There are numerous creative individuals who have dedicated their artistic ability, talent and time to creating new content and breathing life into a game that otherwise would have probably died out without those of you who learned and taught others how to hex and those of you who coded programs to help the rest of us who are not as technically inclined to be able to also contribute! So Thank you. You guys are amazing.
Even if you don't hex things you probably have downloaded some custom breeds, clothes, toys or things from someone who has. You've benefited greatly from the individuals who shared their content with you. While there is a lot of content out there that anyone can download and use there is that expectation that you do not alter, reuse or redistribute others content out of respect for them. It's not much to ask.
Unfortunately there have been numerous cases where people have taken content made by others and altered and distributed it against the wishes of those who made it. This harms the entire community. There are people in the community who want to destroy it by being malicious and disrespectful of the creative individuals who are still actively hexing in a otherwise dying community.
Are these individuals doing this for some sort of petty childish revenge? Is their goal to cause all people who hex to be too afraid to continue to do so? Do they want this tiny community to totally die? Do they have empathy or remorse? I don't know. I cant answer that. Maybe they'll take the time to stop and truly think about the rippling effect their actions have on everyone.
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Post by Thor on Nov 23, 2018 12:15:56 GMT -5
Its sad to feel that way and you have to leave :c
But these bad people can't "steal" if everything is open source. (Open Source means "denoting software for which the original source code is made freely available and may be redistributed and modified.") Perhaps that could be another way to solve this?
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Post by Nostalgic on Nov 23, 2018 12:27:38 GMT -5
If you're talking about who I think you are, then from what I have seen of their stolen work - their hexing sucks and doesn't even compare to the originals, so I wouldn't think you have anything to worry about. I think most everyone in the community knows of these thieves and even point out who the original hexer is. On one hand, walking away is the bigger person thing to do and if you really feel the need to protect yourself, then that's okay and I'm not disagreeing with you or trying to force you to keep hexing when you don't want to. But on the other, in an online situation like this, you're giving in and giving satisfaction to those who want to cause harm and they will only keep doing this no matter what we do because apparently, they do NOT have any empathy or remorse.
The best thing to do in my opinion is to just ignore them until they hopefully get bored.
I'm sorry, I just don't want to see such an amazing hexer go but if you have to, I'm not going to argue and I respect your decision </3
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Post by Alex@Marvel on Nov 23, 2018 14:52:53 GMT -5
If you're talking about who I think you are, then from what I have seen of their stolen work - their hexing sucks and doesn't even compare to the originals, so I wouldn't think you have anything to worry about. I think most everyone in the community knows of these thieves and even point out who the original hexer is. On one hand, walking away is the bigger person thing to do and if you really feel the need to protect yourself, then that's okay and I'm not disagreeing with you or trying to force you to keep hexing when you don't want to. But on the other, in an online situation like this, you're giving in and giving satisfaction to those who want to cause harm and they will only keep doing this no matter what we do because apparently, they do NOT have any empathy or remorse. The best thing to do in my opinion is to just ignore them until they hopefully get bored. I'm sorry, I just don't want to see such an amazing hexer go but if you have to, I'm not going to argue and I respect your decision </3 I would have to agree here. Basically what's happening is they're bullying the PC (and to some degree, getting away with it because they're getting the attention they want). The best thing you can do with bullies is to ignore them.
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Post by Catbaloo on Nov 23, 2018 15:16:46 GMT -5
We've had this happen a few times over the years it's nothing new and I think I've said it before; ultimately the copy cats are the ones missing out. If I get something hexed by you (and I've got a few of your lovely hexies Kelpie) I know I received something that you put creativity, skill and care into and I get not only the joy of adding it to my crew and playing with it, but also the joy of sharing my fun with the community in the form of updates, adding pictures to my avatar or sig etc. If I had a knock off version I can't talk about that with anyone other than the copy cats. Sitting in the background patting themselves on the back for what? Making a poor imitation? Adding nothing of worth to the community? It's hollow and meaningless. I love seeing everyone's hexies because they show a little piece of their personality. You for instance like making quirky hexies, something a little bit different and I love that. What do they show? A lack of imagination, a collection of other people's ideas? A jealous need to have something they can't have? Bitterness when there are so many cool things out there that they could be part of instead? I don't know what motivates some people but I know I don't waste time thinking about them when I can concentrate on looking at the cool characters and stories people create and the excitement when they show them off. That has worth and it's why I've stuck around all this time.
Personally I'm of the philosophy "Stiff upper lip and carry on regardless." and I agree with everything Nostalgia posted but I respect your decision, if you are not comfortable it's not worth the stress and I thank you for my crew members whether that's bread or an alien that just wants a hug.
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Post by Sasha on Nov 23, 2018 15:54:04 GMT -5
I have to say I agree with Catbaloo and Alex on this one, even as the person who was the original victim in this mess. I know I myself have felt like you do now Kelpie, but I decided to not let that affect my time here. The situation that happened with my pet Ostehøvel also showed me how much good and respect there still is in the petz community. Everyone stood by me, everyone who received one deleted it, and so many people helped and supported me. I still believe 100% in the respect and good in this community.
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Dev ✄
Petz Groomer
ザ 闘争
Posts: 172
Petz Versions: 5, 4, 3, 1
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Post by Dev ✄ on Nov 23, 2018 19:02:22 GMT -5
Its sad to feel that way and you have to leave :c But these bad people can't "steal" if everything is open source. (Open Source means "denoting software for which the original source code is made freely available and may be redistributed and modified.") Perhaps that could be another way to solve this? Honestly, this is a good idea. I agree with the Carolyn Horn school of thought--open-source Petz resources are great, and integral to the community! It's stuff like that which got me into Petz as a child.
also yes you're right, can't be stolen if it was freely distributed in the first place
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Post by pinto on Nov 23, 2018 22:26:44 GMT -5
I think open sourcing would remove a lot more people from the PC. Collecting is a huge aspect of playing pets for many people, including myself. I am too old to "play" the game, so creating and collecting are where it ends for me. This is over for me if everything is now available for free.
Making older things available for free, in turn, is against the wishes of many people who aren't a member of a forum to protest otherwise and would not be fair.
I am sad to see yet another person driven from the community due to the immaturity of others. I think the best course of action would be to remove them from as many public platforms as we can. Not giving them an audience would be ideal.
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Post by Thor on Nov 23, 2018 23:34:02 GMT -5
I think open sourcing would remove a lot more people from the PC. Collecting is a huge aspect of playing pets for many people, including myself. I am too old to "play" the game, so creating and collecting are where it ends for me. This is over for me if everything is now available for free. Making older things available for free, in turn, is against the wishes of many people who aren't a member of a forum to protest otherwise and would not be fair. I hope it didn't sound like I was suggesting we just open all old hexies without permission to the internet. Because although I don't 100% agree with some opinions, I 100% respect ya'll and your wishes <3 That being said, all the PF Magic original breeds are all open source. In fact, ya'll use them all the time as hexing bases. As someone from a computer software world, that's like changing someone else's open source code it and putting it out yourself as not open source. Besides, the original breeds are still sought after and sold on PUGs each day. Breeding will always be a thing, even though these original breeds are "open source". And hexing will still be a collector thing. A great example is the PKC: they share breed files and encourage people to hex new colors on them. There will always be collection even with open source. Finally, I don't think poorly of anyone who is touchy with their hexes. I will adopt, trade for, put applications in, etc. for hexes even if I can just download them. Because I love supporting art and the community. As a teacher, I really believe in the phrase "it takes two to make drama". One way that I remove drama in my classroom is to fix it on both ends: 'billy, you need to stop being a jerk to jill' but 'jill, be a bit more patient with billy'. ((also as a teacher I disagree with kicking people out of classrooms because it just causes retaliation ><))
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Post by pinto on Nov 23, 2018 23:59:00 GMT -5
I think open sourcing would remove a lot more people from the PC. Collecting is a huge aspect of playing pets for many people, including myself. I am too old to "play" the game, so creating and collecting are where it ends for me. This is over for me if everything is now available for free. Making older things available for free, in turn, is against the wishes of many people who aren't a member of a forum to protest otherwise and would not be fair. I hope it didn't sound like I was suggesting we just open all old hexies without permission to the internet. Because although I don't 100% agree with some opinions, I 100% respect ya'll and your wishes <3 That being said, all the PF Magic original breeds are all open source. In fact, ya'll use them all the time as hexing bases. As someone from a computer software world, that's like changing someone else's open source code it and putting it out yourself as not open source. Besides, the original breeds are still sought after and sold on PUGs each day. Breeding will always be a thing, even though these original breeds are "open source". And hexing will still be a collector thing. A great example is the PKC: they share breed files and encourage people to hex new colors on them. There will always be collection even with open source. Finally, I don't think poorly of anyone who is touchy with their hexes. I will adopt, trade for, put applications in, etc. for hexes even if I can just download them. Because I love supporting art and the community. As a teacher, I really believe in the phrase "it takes two to make drama". One way that I remove drama in my classroom is to fix it on both ends: 'billy, you need to stop being a jerk to jill' but 'jill, be a bit more patient with billy'. ((also as a teacher I disagree with kicking people out of classrooms because it just causes retaliation ><)) I didn't think that but I see "open source" suggestions and that's where I envision it heading. I'm not for that in the past, now, or anytime in the petz future. It takes away a huge aspect of the community. I also respectfully disagree on it taking two to make drama in this particular instance. I think everyone had a right to be upset that their pets and files were ripped off and stolen and truly cannot think of anyone who "deserved" it. Lunar didn't secretly kick someone's dog last weekend, or give any of them a hard time in life. I do not think they should be asked to sit on their hands while rulebreakers continue to break rules and hurt feelings. I don't think they deserve our patience anymore. Considering the first act of rule breaking essentially went untalked about and unnoticed, I think that right there was the all the patience they deserved to get their act together and stop harassing members of the PC. They continue to do so. I'm personally over it.
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Post by Amy @ Maplewood Kennels on Nov 24, 2018 0:53:48 GMT -5
If a person is stealing from people in a community, that person should be banned and other communities should be warned.
Open Source should be an option for every hexer, but not required.
I loved the old days when hexers created awesome unique breed files for everyone to download. I remember Vickie, Petz Gallery and Faire Barndance all offered awesome breed files. Carolyn Creations was also awesome. Now it feels people are afraid to share because they want them to be special. I understand, I've been there. But just the fact that you created something amazing to share with the community is super special in itself.
I feel the petz community is about sharing. The more we can share, the more the community will grow and live on.
I'm not saying to never do hexies only a few people have, because those have their place. I do think there needs to be more actual breed files available though. That was my favorite part of petz back in the day. Finding new breed files to download and play with. Plus, if you just do limited hexies, how much awesome stuff has the community lost because people lose interest and vanish. I'd love to come back from a long hiatus to find people still loving stuff I made.
Anyways, just my 2 cents.
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Post by ✬MsWildiful✬ on Nov 24, 2018 9:49:31 GMT -5
It saddens me that people are petty enough to steal and rip off hexies for no good reason, it's really folly and I truly hope they can find something much better to do with their time instead of trying to hinder our little community. I respect your choice to quit hexing but like others said if I were you I'd choose not to give them that satisfaction but do as you wish Although I seen the title of this thread and I'm delighted that you're only quitting hexing and not the entire petz community, it saddens me for us to loose members and I am grateful to be alive around this point in time so I get to enjoy and be apart of this lovely community, I want it to live as long as it can, and if the community would've ended when they stopped making Petz games in the early 2000's which is around the time when I was born I probably would've never knew of it, and I find it special it's still around today <3
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Post by Ratqueen on Nov 24, 2018 16:27:55 GMT -5
The situation wasn't swept under the rug, as some may think, but was being discussed and dealt with privately, so as to not encourage further unwanted behaviors by bringing attention to them -- which was explained by PM to all concerned.
Also, we (the RKC mod team) are not an impulsive bunch. We may take more time to come to a definitive conclusion because issues are investigated in depth and discussed back and forth with the entire mod team (and sometimes we have to wait for someone to be around more than once). Decisions are made after weighing the pros and cons of any situation at hand, and after anyone in the team who cares to has had a chance to voice their opinion.
We have decided to ban 2 accounts from RKC. That's all that needs to be said about this.
I'm also taking this opportunity to ask that anyone who has a problem regarding anything, please contact a mod privately by PM, and keep it that way. Thanks.
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Post by Vanilla on Nov 24, 2018 20:21:35 GMT -5
What Ratqueen said^^ I just also wanted to add that all of this is known about basically across the entire PC, I'm staff at PKC and an admin at Duke's Group and both forums staff are fully aware of what went on(even though it was outside of us) and are prepared in case something should happen there. We keep it quiet for the same reasons Ratqueen gave.
~Vanilla
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